A Kingdom Divided : Rules and game mechanics (Discussion)

Keep in mind that 50% renown would still be less total renown than most of the 2 PC Orders, although that of course varies. In the course of Event 1, it would be about 30-40 extra renown for the Dawn and Clarion Call.

I would go for renown specifically earmarked for troops. Chances are that NPC lieutenants will appear anyway (they already have), and that generally gives the player more options without making them Uber Death Tanks.

Regarding lieutenants:How about we have a possibility to buy Knight Commander, which would basically be stronger but would cost more Renown. This is for sole reason to make our unique units be different from others in power as well, it wouldn't give them any more RP freedom then a simple unit.

General PCs will not have access to lieutenants. Dictatorial/Tyrannical GM No. Splitting up PC warbands on a larger scale would make the game a mess to try to GM, as it would functionally double the player base.  We'll post what the rules are about splitting up warbands for less complex orders soon, but we can't have everyone playing 2-3 separate characters that are doing different things.  It's just not feasible.

It's also the reason I'm not loving the idea as a way to help the single-PC orders... it creates problems itself, when we're really just trying to adjust fairness.

I'd say that when you split a chunk of your unit to do something else they become GM controlled just like other NPCs, it would lessen the toll of work. And maybe lessen the effects of that rule on scouting units, such as infiltration based parties like Rivathas otherwise her unit would become quite under powered (hope i'm not sounding biased, but i really believe this).

As time goes by and I remain enamored by my weekly fencing matches..there's this urge to bring fencing into the world of Pendor.

As there are several fencing styles and a few hundred years ago someone practising dual-wielding (with either a knife, cloak or grappling hook) was a common sight, is there a way we can incorporate this in a future event (/evolution of fencing styles)?

You mean incorporating dual-wield?

Jing Ming wrote:

You mean incorporating dual-wield?

Not particularly, more fencing in general. We have the lore on Barclay, which has a lot of fencing in its culture..yet besides the 'fencing master' requirement in the fighting styles thread, we haven't seen a single trace of it in Pendor.

I was curious if we would see Barclay melt into Pendorian culture, with a special regard to the more agile fighting style.

For example; noble npc's abandoning the shield in favor of the sword-and-knife. Generally showing up in light armor and have the confidence to fight without having five squires helping him getting into a plate suit.

I see. We do have a lot of Mettenheim style followers.

It would be interesting and very reasonable to see young noblemen practicing Barclay. More patriotic families would be against it, and older Pendorians in general would not like it - wearing light armor and wielding thin swords is too Noldorly, too girly, or just too stupid - Pendor is not the most refined of kingdoms, after all. It might be interesting to see the dynamics between the typical Marleons heavy cavarlyman, the Barclay fencers, and the Mettenheimers.

Yes, I have some ideas already.

Mettenheim way, or the highway

Jing Ming wrote:

Pendor is not the most refined of kingdoms, after all.

This, exactly.

I think what I was wondering is if we stay in the unrefined stage of PoP3, or allow Pendor to evolve a little.

I believe it was said once that PoP4 would evolve like Europe did during the early stages of the Renaissance, yet without the discovery of gunpowder. Will AKD follow this line of process, or keep the feel of PoP3 intact?

Spoiler:

It has become much, much more refined than pop3. For all purposes we are in the renaissance now.

Still, Pendor is not as refined as the other powers, not even war-torn Amala. And it is pitiful in comparison with Barclay. Barclay is renaissance Italy and Spain together, Pendor is, uh, Switzerland? Or Ireland?

Jing Ming wrote:

Still, Pendor is not as refined as the other powers, not even war-torn Amala. And it is pitiful in comparison with Barclay.

So the higher nobles are so rigid that even the boredom that comes with peace won't bring them to socialize with the Barclayans and crusaders from Amala?
Wasn't the war between the five kingdoms the primary reason that Pendorians were uneducated brutes?

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Wasn't the war between the five kingdoms the primary reason that Pendorians were uneducated brutes?

I think it's the other way around. Or probably both.

Despite what it seems, this is not essentially a negative trait. Being bellicose and battle-hardened is most probably what prevented Pendor, a lesser power, of being invaded, even through culture only started blossoming with Mordred I. Remember the map? Pendor is right in the middle of it. Not only is it accessible to all other nations, but it is also of great strategic value. For instance, if the Snake cult conquers Pendor, it can easily reach Barclay without going the long land route (which also has powerful enemies to overcome: Amala, Santara and finally Barclay).
Attempts never ceased and are becoming more and more sophisticated, but so far Pendor kicks ass with their knighthood orders and paranoid conservative lords.

But the lords ventured out of their castles with armies and killed each other.. now they sit idle, raise taxes and marry their children to their former enemies. Their primary task has changed from warlord to governor..their attire from plate to fine linen or silk. (see what I'm getting at?)

Greysword was a valkyrie of sorts, a remnant of the more sophisticated version of the Vanskerry (Fierdsvain). But what about Duke Aelfwine? Surely this mighty aristocratic noble won't have to dress in plate in order to be taken seriously? Fine clothing (light armor) does the job as well.. and a rapier or long knife would be the preferred weapon to be carried.

Spoiler:

I see what you're getting at. Indeed, many have adopted boring lives, and many more are enjoying the cultural and technological boom that the immigrants brought with them.

However - and I stress that -, Pendor still hasn't abandoned the way of violence. This is Shadow War: orders have patrons, secret or otherwise, who fund and motivate them to do what they can't or won't do openly. That pop3 mentality of aggression and conquest hasn't disappeared, it just became subtler.

Also remember that only 15 years ago there were the Republican wars. And 25 years ago Mordred the Mad reigned and killed everyone. There's only so much a culture can prosper in a decade.

Pendorians largely prefer their own traditions.  The cavalry charge by heavily armored knights remains the 'tried and true' tactic.  Given the current situation, most of the high lords will prefer to dig deeply into the traditions of their former kingdoms.  A Fierdsvain noblemen is likely to carry and use an axe for ceremony, and duel with axes in the Vanskerry fashion.  D'shar nobles maintain their skill with archery and horse archery.  Sarleon is the land of jousts and longswords, etc.

In Ravenstern, what's the point of breaking away from Sarleon's yoke if you're simply going to replace it with Barclayan culture? Ravenstern is the bestest, after all. They held back the Mystmountain hordes for centuries without reading poetry from Mettenheim!

Knowing Mettenheim poetry, I'm sure it would have been more effective at scaring the barbarians away

But with covert warfare comes the illusion of incapability. Men who appear to be a tad girly to hide a murderous ambition underneath.

I'm falling back to something you probably haven't watched, but in the second season of the tv-serie 'Borgias' the second in line for the throne of Naples tricks the Borgias into believing he's peace-loving and easy to influence..while in fact he has been working against them the entire time. (by faking an assassination attempt on his own life, and more)

How better to appear inadequate than to leave plate armor to rust and employ Barclay fencers that can easily sneak in and out of cities. (much better assassins and skirmishers than plated knights)

@Isabel:
I'm not saying Ravenstern nobles should adopt something that's the opposite of what they stand for..they would've been an exception in my mind. (althought the smallfolk and the industrial boom would be more keen to attract the finer things)

Still bear in mind that Renaissance Scotland (which is the closest RL culture to Ravenstern) saw big hairy men in skirts duelling each other with claymores and pistols. There was still very much the macho culture. It was only really in France and Italy that the small sword came into popularity, and much later England (though they, like the Spanish preferred the longer Rapier).

This is pretty close to how I would imagine a Ravenstern Vs Barclay noble duel going down; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27M5KWI_q50

Mordred wrote:

Still bear in mind that Renaissance Scotland (which is the closest RL culture to Ravenstern) saw big hairy men in skirts duelling each other with claymores and pistols. There was still very much the macho culture. It was only really in France and Italy that the small sword came into popularity, and much later England (though they, like the Spanish preferred the longer Rapier).

Though Pendor sees more of French/Spanish (Barclay) fencers than Scotland did. (I assume the Scots didn't bring conquistadors along, or colonized Italy (Amala))

Ravenstern is proud of being independent..that's the whole problem with being under the Adalhards in Sarleon. But it is going through an industrial boom that Scotland didn't have (did it?) and it is therefore likely that the merchants and others learn to appreciate the wardrobe and culture of the foreign merchants. The nobles with their urge for independence would be opposed of outside influence (or it could be a lesser evil?)

The rest of Pendor, and typically Sarleon that is historically closest to Barclayan culture, could have copied others much sooner. Just like Singal can be full of Amalan culture because the crusaders brought home trophies or wives (and children).

I'm really not sure what you're asking about anymore.

Barclay has the dueling culture of fencing that might be likened to Braavos in Game of Thrones. Fencing is present in Pendor, but it is not prominent like in Barclay, nor would Pendor be described as a 'dueling culture'. It's much more of the 'Oh yeah? Oh yeah? I'll raise a warband and burn your family holdings!' minor-warfare kind of place.

They use assassins and political intrigue... it's just not dependent upon lightly armored fencers. Note the existence of the Shadow Council. (But don't really, 'cause they'll send an assassin after you!)

The definite answer is this: yes, you can find some people wearing light armor and thin swords in Pendor. There is a higher proportion of Mettenheim fanboys due to both Griffon and Mordred I relations with them. And a still higher proportion of heavy cavalry fans and old Empire traditionalists (heavy shields and short swords).

As for the movie: note that all those cuts would be in places protected by heavy armor. I doubt that a typical Pendorian lord would remove his armor for the sake of the duel.

Isabel Tenorio wrote:

They use assassins and political intrigue... it's just not dependent upon lightly armored fencers.  Note the existence of the Shadow Council.  (But don't really, 'cause they'll send an assassin after you!)

It was said that war was now covert, a 'shadow war'. I merely observed that a light armored man wouldn't stand out as much as a fully plated knight would. Just like a shadow war would be more efficient if the nobles played their own games.. which means that they don't show up in platemail and use force right away, but rather appear weaker than they actually are.

That aside, I never saw Pendor as a Kingdom in isolation. We have lore on Barclay, Amala and Veccavia.. players use conquistadors and many play foreigners. I think it's quite logical if the smallfolk and merchant class are quite influenced by this.
The aristocracy might not like it, but some of the lesser lords could also embrace it in an attempt to gain some power (it's a shadow war, after all).

My first question was about an evolving Pendor and I merely used fighting styles as its premier example.

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The aristocracy might not like it, but some of the lesser lords could also embrace it in an attempt to gain some power (it's a shadow war, after all).

This is already happening, and if you haven't put the clues together yet, you soon will.