The TES thread

The Sermons are MK's masterpiece.  They're the only source that ties together all the various 'perspective stories' about the fundamental nature of the series.  On the lore forums you can find incredibly detailed and finely researched theories that connect a handful of phrases to one of the deeper mysteries.  It's proof that man can create a convincing religion!

Also: Vivec is win.

Im close to finishing the MQ and I downloaded a mod that added a voice to Vivec's dialogue. Just makes him that bit more epic!

Cant remember what its called, but I have another mod that adds some sorely needed immersion to the game. As you proceed throughout the MQ the Sixth House presence becomes more and more prominent. Im at the end now, and the docks of Vvardenfell are flooded with fearful Dunmer trying desperately to flee the island, there are Sixth House shrines in every settlement with Dreamer Preachers shouting at everyone who walks by, the countryside is swarming with Corprus Monsters and an entire army of Bouyant Armigers and Ordinators have camped outside the Ghostgate. Its awesome! Makes everything feel so climatic!

Yeah, it's one of the stories I'll tell to my children at night.

"Kids, tonight I'll tell you of the Nerevarine and how he saved Vvardenfell from the blight."

Only things that I miss are the gory drama, the backstabbing and the character development of the Game of Thrones.

But Saeros, which version of the Battle of Red Mountain will you tell?  The one with Nords and Orcs, the one with giant stompy robots, or the one where evil Dwemer are eradicated for the blasphemy of being atheists in a world with clear divine presence?

I don't remember any of these... I must go to the (imperial) library.


Off-topic: for me Oberyn Martell will always be the medieval version of Tony Stark.

I remember stumbling upon a theory for "Chim" where a part of vivec's power is from his realization of the fact that he's in a world of either dreams or he realizes he's in a game.

And yup Kharad, the surname for my character comes from Master Aryon, the master of Tel Vos, with its mixture of imperial architecture and mushroom tower!

Also, I noticed that they have their own tomb, and I've found 4 other aryons, but the UESP details at least 6 others

That's what CHIM is, in fact.  It's the recognition that you're merely the figment of a dreaming god(head), but being selfish enough to not disappear into a more Buddhist style nirvana... rather maintaining a sense of 'I am' in addition to recognizing that you're all of us.  Hence the phrase: I am and I are all we.  Vivec recognized that he was the same as everyone else, and everyone was him too... he just maintained his own sense of self.  Utterly unfathomable for a real person to comprehend that kind of paradox, but you know! 

As the Sermons tell you, Lorkhan was on the verge of the same discovery, but willfully denied it and failed (allowed his opposite/self, Akatosh & his lesser echo of Trinimac, to rip out his heart) so that the world could be made instead.  That way lesser spirits would have something to anchor to, and so be able to reach CHIM as well.

Tiber Septim then replayed that same event on a less grand scale (walking like them until they walk like you) with his opposite (yet also himself!), Zurin Arctus, and the Numidium instead of the whole Mundus.  In doing so he created an empire... but also managed to usurp the place Lorkhan had reserved for himself (the center of the literal and metaphorical hub of creation), thus mantling Akatosh but succeeding where Lorkhan failed, and became the god Talos.  Talos is basically the completed echo of Akatosh and Lorkhan struggling, which is itself an echo of Anu and Padomay struggling, itself an echo of the base concepts of Everything and Nothing that make up the dreaming god(head)... which is utterly insane, hence all of this echo and duality.

But from what I gather, CHIM was declaring that 'I am' when you know you are just a figment of imagination. Escaping from a pseudo prison of the laws of Mundus.

There was a passage I can't remember where Vivec sounded like he accessed the Construction Kit.

I would compare it to lucid dreaming, but lucid dreaming of one of the characters in your dream. 

I would say (with my admittedly limited on the subject) that Vivec achieved CHIM by using the people's love of him to assure himself of his own existence. 

Dang this universe is intense. I'll look more into this throughout the week!

My god. That video makes it all make sense!

There are two concepts to keep in mind, one of them being CHIM.  The other is zero-sum, of which any number of beings in the TES universe have accomplished.  Once you realize that you're merely a part of the dream, a figment of the dreaming insane-godhead, you naturally recognize that you don't exist.  Hence the term zero-sum.  All the universe that you know is merely the interplay of the concept of EVERYTHING and the concept of NOTHING... prior to Skyrim MK had taken to digital metaphors with binary code.  Once you realize that you're an echo of everything and nothing, the natural reaction is to trace that to what you are: zero, just a combination of negatives and positives.  Thus you disappear entirely, much closer to the real world concepts of certain religions, liking becoming a drop of water inside the entire river.  Nearly every being that ponders this, Moth-Priests and PSJJC do frequently.

CHIM takes it a step further, as instead of going zero-sum you maintain what was once the old you. Hence it is both I AM and I ARE ALL WE.  Vivec achieved this state at the moment he became a god by stealing Lorkhan's divinity... and he used his powers of CHIM to make it so that he was always a god.  This is the moment that Vehk the mortal 'merged' with Vehk the god, taking the name Vivec.  Vivec is, in a sense, the insane godhead. Talos/Tiber Septim also achieved CHIM, the other of two beings we know to have achieved it... with the possible exception of Lorkhan. 

Think of Lorkhan as a kind of Buddha, he delayed his own enlightenment so that he could share the path with others.  Lorkhan was amongst the first of the deities in many versions of the story, he traveled as far as he could in the world.  When he came to the edge of existence, he saw the tower.  The TES universe is based on the coin metaphor (Lorkhan and Akatosh are two sides of the same coin, same for Tiber/Talos and Zurin Arctus), but it is also literal.  Upon coming the edge, which is like being inside of a coin, he saw the edge creating the shape of 'I' and began to understand the nature of his existence.  He then set about tricking the other et'Ada so that a permanent world would exist, and the lesser spirits could realize 'I' as well, although then meaning the word/letter i... or self.

In a comparison to the lucid dream model (which is the closest understandable concept we have in RL) imagine there is no dreamer in the dream.  Any figment of that dream is capable of awakening or 'going lucid' at any time.  They then become the dreamer, power-wise.  Most, however, simply fade upon the realization that they don't exist.  You have to be a bit mad to achieve CHIM.

But then this all becomes ever more complicated by Vivec sending us a love letter from the 5th era... it apparently claims that CHIM is not the only way to achieve, well, CHIM. >.<

Edit: http://www.imperial-library.info/content/more-psijic-endeavor  This explains a bit about CHIM... not really.

http://www.imperial-library.info/content/loveletter-fifth-era-true-purpose-tamriel  And this explains yet even less...

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Think of Lorkhan as a kind of Buddha, he delayed his own enlightenment so that he could share the path with others.

So he is a Boddhisattva :-)

Well, then the world is flat and Masser and Secunda are just a tridimensional manifestation of infinity, so that's why they appear round, isn't that right? I remember we had a discussion like this a while back. Only thing I got differently was that "I" was the shape of that tower in High Rock. I never thought of it as the coin seen from a different angle.

Yes to the infinity question.  Although it's not... totally flat, but, well, flat with a round part in the center!  (It's -coin- shaped, geez! )  The cosmology is that everything is infinite, save for the world.  The moons are Lorkhan's body, the rest of the planets are also the rest of the Nine Divines... although Talos doesn't have a plane(t) IIRC, because he usurped the spot Lorkhan had reserved for himself, the spoke of the wheel of the universe (Mundus).  They're just perceived as round, because that's the best way mortals can perceive infinity... that is to say, a circle or an ouroboros. Literal and metaphoric again.  Akatosh/Alduin, the same being until Skyrim's retcon, is the serpent that eats the world over and over again.  There is another story of the original et'Ada surviving each kalpa, that was ended by a great serpent devouring everything, by walking in a certain way, also known as the Gods-of-Move-Like-This to the Redguards.  The young gods, led by Lorkhan, did not have the patience to move like that, and so tried to create the world to become truly permanent.

The I shape is the same thing again.  It is the tower, of which there are many potent towers that create the shape of a wheel when connected with lines.  The hub of those towers? You guessed it!  The White-Gold Tower, that Tiber Septim made his home.  This is why the dreaming godhead is insane, I tell you!

Dude, if I had the power I would arrange for some university to hire you for a short-term course on TES mythology. Can you imagine? Getting paid to talk about TES lore? 

What I do know is that people in Trondheim are very into this kind of stuff, but I'm not in contact with anyone there. It's something to consider if you're, uh, planning a hiking trip to Norway.

I think my brain imploded reading this. o.O

I'll have to be content with the lore forums!  I need to get back into reading them.

For anyone that wishes to start, just obey prowler and TheWordMerchant... the former knows everything, and the latter goes all out in researching detailed theories.  Ignore TES96.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxHbO1MHXuI

Has anyone watched this? I found this really hilarious, it looks a lot like real life counter parts, while still maintaining feel of skyrim.

Many times! The bit with the dogs had me pissing myself! Seems like a typical police excuse they come up with afterward!

My gods that is awesome.

And there are 10 episodes+few "commercials"! only 10.. i wonder when season 3 comes out.

EDIT:Apparently they uploaded video 2 days ago, which says that they are coming back next month. YAY!

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Many times! The bit with the dogs had me pissing myself! Seems like a typical police excuse they come up with afterward! Very Happy

I don't even know which one is my favourite from all episodes, epic chase, dragon hunt,"Prostitution" in first episode.. creators are awesome!

Why do I find this so amusing?

http://derpicdn.net/media/W1siZiIsIjIwMTMvMDQvMTcvMjJfMDlfNDdfNzIwXzMwMTA1N19fVU5PUFRfX3NhZmVfYXJ0aXN0X2Rvb20xMy5qcGVnIl1d/301057__safe_twilight%2Bsparkle_rainbow%2Bdash_pinkie%2Bpie_fluttershy_rarity_applejack_spike_mane%2Bseven_skyrim_the%2Belder%2Bscrolls_artist-colon-doom13_morrowind_vivec_colovian%2Bfur%2Bhelm_almalexia.jpeg

Vivec is awesome even in pony form! (I bet he's used that from time to time anyway...)

Very nice, but the things that really caught me were her insanity eyes and blank stare. Just like I picture Almalexia.

Spoiler:

If any of you followed the awesome albeit brief Cabbage in a Pot mod, you will be happy to know that there are real pictures cosplays of Krautie: http://forums.nexusmods.com/index.php?/topic/982538-cabbage-in-a-pot-made-real/

Gods, do I post crap.

Yes, yes you do

At least its amusing though

...

I don't even know what to say to that!