A Kingdom Divided

A RPG based on the setting of PoP 3, taking place roughly a century after the end of the unification wars
 
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Jing Ming
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PostSubject: Pendorian Religion   31.01.13 3:10

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Yeah, gods and religion are in need of revisions and additions. For example, it is slightly weird that some of the major Pendor Goddesses with no known ties to Amala have purely Latin names.

I started a little discussion about the general topic und the Dev forums a while back. Maybe it is time to restart that one.

This is an interesting topic and we can talk a bit about it here, I think.

An acceptable explanation is that Pendorians never got into the translation/syncretism phase that the Romans did with Greek religion (ex. Jupiter and Zeus). This might be due to weak Pendorian native language and culture. And is another interesting question: what is native to Pendor? Noldor and Mystmountain barbarians?
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Sir Lucius

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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   15.02.13 10:23

That would imply that many of the gods/goddesses were Amalan originally, right?

As to your second question, based on the little that I know it would seem that the Noldor were probably native Pendor and have, obviously, declined a great deal since then. However, there's probably a million different arguments that could be made about who is actually native to Pendor. It's certainly a very interesting question though.


Personally, I would like to see a lot more explained about Pendorian religion. Playing a character that is particularly concerned about religious matters (specifically in regards to the goddess Astraea) means that more information is always better! And there's definitely a lot of room to play with there.
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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   15.02.13 10:31

One of the planned events has to do with religion (the gods, more specifially).


These are the most important Pendorian gods:

[Source: Wetpaint Wiki]

The Gods of Pendor

Erida Occisor – Heretics appear to have portable altars for human sacrifice.
She was grateful to finally having followers, after having been forgotten for hundreds of
years, so lets the Heretics summon her Deomonic Warriors. With
each sacrificial death, she gains in power, and hopes to return to her
physical form one day and dominate the earth. Her Demonic
Warriors resemble her physical form. She is a demon formed outside
The Eligic Pantheon, who can only maintain reality via worship/sacrifice.
Pronunciation :”Eh-ree-dah Oak-kiss-ore”

Azi Dahaka - “Ah-zee-dah-ha-kah” Ferdowsi conceived her as a
demon already, manifested as a gigantic snake in a huge, gray thunderhead.
I assume she manifests to her followers as a massive snake with a
distorted, fanged human head.

HafSigla - When on earth, he manifests as a strong wind. Since the Vanskerries
are sailors and explorers, as well as raiders, he adopted them. He
directed them towards Pendor, by manifesting as a strong, steady
wind blowing in Pendor’s direction.
“By HafSigla, I vill drink from your skull.” “Hoff-see-glah”

Vejovis: - Vejovis manifests as a mountain cat, like a snow leopard, but only the shamans see him.
Whenever the Mystmountains see a mountain cat, they take it as an omen
that they can pull off a successful raid, and organize one immediately.
Vejovis liked the Mystmountains, and wanted to help them regain their
lands, stolen by Pedor/Ravenstern.
“Vay-joe-veez”

Indar – Represented by fleeing coward being shot down by god.
“In-dar.” The Jatu have absolute contempt for anyone who runs
from a fight. He manifests as a mounted bowman in important Jatu
battles, and when the Jatu find one of their number with an arrow in
his back, he is considered a coward whom Indar shot.

Vata - Represented as a black stallion, mane and tale blowing in the wind.
Shrines in D’Shar territory. “Vah-tah” D’Shar swear by him when
attesting to the truth of something, sealing bargains with salt, also cursing.
He manifests as a beautiful black stallion, riderless, running like the
wind, and though the D’Shar try to catch him, cannot be caught, so
the D’Shar know they have seen him, when they try and fail.

UllrVetr - Represented by man standing in snow holding bow. “Ooo-ler-Vet-er”
He is especially revered by bowmen all over Pendor, who probably also swear by him.
He manifests as a bowman in Ranger garb, joining ranged soldiers in
battle, on occasion, and has also been known to manifest as an actual
bow, to aid an especially worthy bowman.

Thallo Ver Shures – manifests as naked young girl garlanded in flowers to cover
censored parts, use Roman representaton of her holding a pitcher,
pouring out the early morning dew. She can sometimes be found walking
about in the Fierdsvain on an early spring morning. Many farmers, up
early to spring-plant their fields have seen her. When she is pleased by
a farmer’s diligence, she gives him one of her flowers, and his crops
sprout earlier and bear more heavily. “Tall-oh-ver-sure-rez”
Shrines in Fierdsvain, beloved by farmers, particularly.

Damia Provideo – Roman-depiction as nude mature woman’s figure (garlanded with
corn) to cover salient bits. She does not manifest. The Empire
farmers know she is watching over them when they have warm, rain-
free days to bring in the harvest. “Dah-mee-ah-Pro-vee-day-oh”
Shrines in Empire, Marius is trying hard to replace Azi Dahaka with
her, because she was the original Pendor goddess.

Eunomia Stabilitis – represented as stern-looking robed woman holding book of law with
an owl on her shoulder. The owl is both her messenger and the
form she takes when she appears. The hooting of an owl is how she
tells her followers that something is coming or about to happen. .
“You-know-me-ah Stah-bee-light-iss” Should be invoked before battle
with a prayer for order through victory. Shrines in Sarleon, was
originally chief goddess when Sarleon ruled all of Pendor.

Astraea – represented as woman on dark blue ground with crown of stars. ”Ahs-tray-ah”
No shrines until Player builds them when holding Valonbray unless you want to
put one for the Knights of Dawn in Valonbray initially? Astraea once lived
upon earth, but left. She will only return if the Knights of Dawn succeed in their
quest of eliminating lawlessness and injustice, but she watches over the Knights.
She appeared to Sir Bernard in a dream, as a beautiful woman crowned
with stars, and told him she could only return when justice and lawfulness ruled
the world, and asked him to found an order to accomplish this.
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Sir Lucius

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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   15.02.13 10:46

Yeah, I've seen that and read it quite extensively. As I said though, there's a lot more that could be said about it. (Especially as someone who has OCD! tongue )
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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   15.02.13 10:51

There isn't much more than that. Everything else is fanon.

Some things that were established in Aftermath are 'official fanon' though. Like the leader of the Astraean Church is the Venerable Judicator, they have Bishops, Knights take vows of chastity, poverty, and obedience, etc.

You can take a turn writing some of it. tongue
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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   15.02.13 11:19

I realize there's really not much more out there, I'm just complaining. tongue

Maybe I'll take a stab at it if you guys don't mind. Don't want to step on any toes!
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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   15.02.13 11:22

I think all of us have taken turns creating background info at various points, even before this project. Feel free to write up whatever you want. When you feel it's ready, post it publicly and we vultures will devour it. ( Wink )
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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   17.02.13 19:17

As my character comes from being the village priest of a small congregation, I don't think it makes sense for him to have specialized as heavily towards a single god such as someone from the Knights of the Dawn.

If anyone has experience with the Warhammer and 40k universe, you've probably heard of something called Chaos Undivided, in which a worshiper would view each god as part of a pantheon and worship each in turn as the need arose. (not saying all the Pendor gods are chaos gods, but hey you get the point) Would this be something that the Pendorians might come up with as well, as I can imagine a farmer would worship either Thallo Ver Shures or her Empire equivalent, Ullvetyr to make his bow shoot straight on the hunt, and Astrea if the need for justice arose.

Seeing how having a priest for each god or goddess might make things a bit cramped, I thought it would be good if there were some priests who could offer blessings or curses in several gods names. Not to mention it might be fun to swear by every deity you worship when you get angry.

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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   18.02.13 2:12

I think that would work quite well actually, especially among the commoners. Just be aware that the monotheistic Orders, like the Dawn will not take too kindly to it!

Although that said, Pendor is a multi-faith community, in which there is a pantheon of the gods, so I don't really know what the Dawn's reaction to other gods would be. I'll let the Dawn themselves decide that.
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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   18.02.13 5:18

My assumption has always been benign neglect. Except for perhaps during the Reign of Terror shortly after the Unification Wars. So long as Astraea receives her due (as the bestest goddess!) then other worship may take place. It just wouldn't be wise to offer a polite 'Vata bless you!' to a Dawn Knight. >.>

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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   18.02.13 13:18

My impression has been much more like Isabel's. I don't think that the Order of the Dawn is monotheistic at all. They just believe that Astraea should be worshiped before all other gods. The only question I have about the gods is which ones are viewed as "legitimate" or not; obviously the Dawn don't believe "gods" like Erida Occisor are legitimate, but I doubt many Pendorians who don't worship her believe that Occisor is a true god.

Edit: It occurs to me that Occisor might be something akin to Lucifer and in that sense be seen as a legitimate, though not in a good way.

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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   18.02.13 13:35

Azi Dahaka (Snake Cult) and Erida Occisor (Heretics) are basically the illegal ones, all the others are legit, though some like the Mystmountain one (Vejovis? I forget, was never too hot on Pendor religion) might not be as welcome as say Damia Provideo or Astraea.
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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   18.02.13 13:44

Mordred wrote:
Azi Dahaka (Snake Cult) and Erida Occisor (Heretics) are basically the illegal ones, all the others are legit, though some like the Mystmountain one (Vejovis? I forget, was never too hot on Pendor religion) might not be as welcome as say Damia Provideo or Astraea.

That's not exactly what I meant by "legitimate". What I meant to ask is, which gods are actually considered part of the Pendorian religion? Is Erida Occisor actually considered part of the religion, albeit not a "good" god? Or is she another religion unto itself? It's analogous to asking whether Lucifer is part of the Christian religion or Hindu (or what have you) religion. I guess it's possible that all depends on your point of view though. There may not actually be an answer in the established canon.

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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   18.02.13 13:49

It's much more Roman, or so I imagine. Virtually every god is real and believed in, but not always worshiped.

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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   18.02.13 13:51

Well, I have to say that makes a lot of sense!

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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   18.02.13 16:20

That was probably because it would have been too expensive to buy sacrifices for each of them. It gets expensive when you have to buy 20 different animals!

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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   27.02.13 19:17

So are the only Pendorian gods the ones on the list on the wiki? Or could there be some more obscure ones.

For such a violent region, it seems odd to me that there is no God of War or battle in Pendor.

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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   27.02.13 19:19

There are such gods in Amala. However, they would not have a significant presence in mainland Pendor.
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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   28.02.13 3:52

The Jatu have a god that kills those who flee from battle. That's... sort of a war god? Maybe? >.>

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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   28.02.13 3:55

Is there any god/gods/some form of deity significant to Ravenstern?

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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   28.02.13 4:30

Perhaps war is such an important feature of Pendorian culture that they have different gods for different aspects of war: the god of bravery (the one of the Jatu), the god of pillaging, the god of killing from afar (Ullr'Vetr), etc.

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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   24.05.13 3:05

Perhaps this is unrelated to Pendor, but it is a very interesting concept. I am reading a Chinese novel, which I can't give an English name to it. In that novel, the author had a very interesting view on god and evil. He wrote that the winner claimed themselves to be good, banished the loser. Thus they became god, while the loser became devil. I can only imagine, in a world where there are many gods, there must be a war between them. In summary, there are no good nor evil, just winner and loser.

I find this concept somewhat correct too. WHAT IF, the "evil" gods won, and also spread words about their righteousness. That will change the way the people worship. I.e, Titans won over the Gods of Olympus, then would people of ancient Greek worship the Titans instead of the Gods of Olympus. Of course only when Gods truly exists. When God is just a Fictional character, one who is righteous, honorable and such is worshiped, as a moral standard for people to follow. But in the world of Pendor, where Gods truly exist, and interact with people, such thing as Winner and Loser can be the case.

I am not a part of any religion, but this whole Evil of Good seemed to bottled my mind for quite the time and still does.

This also can apply to real world. WWI, WWII, if Nazi is the winner, if the took over the world. They will teach people to believe in their ideals, and that those ideals are righteous. They will erase any existence of other believe. The process can take time, be it 50 or 100 years or longer but I believe it is possible. They will become the "good" guy. But in fact, the Alliance, and Soviet Russia won the war. This means that Nazi became the bad guy and the world acknowledged that fact.

I would love if anyone can tell me what you think about this concept. Sorry if my writing is bad and unorganized, I wrote this out of the blue just after reading through the novel.


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The Novel name can be translated to English meaning The Evil's Principle. I don't read it in Chinese though.

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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   24.05.13 3:33

Interesting. I'm preparing a passage of the Genesis for my students tomorrow, and this though somehow fits in the Old Testament. A funny passage: the god of Israel orders a slave to order the Pharaoh to free his people on his behalf. I find it very interesting to see this kind of staring contest and power struggle between gods (the pharaoh is the son of a god), since the situation is that one of those will will have to yield somehow. It's also funny that a slave is giving an order to a Pharaoh. According to one perspective, the story is how one god won that contest and freed his people.

Differently from the Greeks in the gods vs. titans story, this good god-evil god dichotomy didn't exist in among the Romans, who absorbed indigenous gods throughout their expansion without banning any. The evil nature of some gods is stressed not in absolute terms, but only in relation to current morals, so Bacchus, being the god of wine, madness and debauchery, was frowned upon by some circles of society. Or were the reasons political, since Carthaginian gods were evil because Carthage was evil, etc.

But, yeah, I don't know if it would fit Pendor. Erida Occisor seems pretty much hardcore evil to me. You know, demonic magni and human sacrifices. Same with Azi Dahaka. Snake goddess, and since snakes are obviously evil, that goddess is also evil Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   24.05.13 4:11

It also comes down to the perspective of the one worshiping or not worshiping a god. Which is why I find the win or lose concept very interesting.

For example, how would a Greek philosopher look at the Scandinavian gods and decide who is evil and who is not. It is an entirely different perspective. Apply it to Pendor, how would a "heretic" decide whether Azi Dehaka is evil or not?

The word Heretic itself bears a meaning toward the winner and loser, if you relate this to the middle age. Do you think, the heretics in Pendor was also the product of Astraea, after winning against Erida Occisor.

I'm not knowledgeable in mythology and religion, then again that's why I'm so curious about this. The religion aspect of Pendor is obviously still not fully developed and I hope Saxondragon and his team can afford to take sometime and think more about it.

And here I hope we can, even if is fanon, open up this mystery.

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PostSubject: Re: Pendorian Religion   24.05.13 4:24

I should start a cult dedicated to the pendorian war god(s).

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