Crusader Kings / Paradox Games

We discuss them enough, so I suppose a thread is a good idea!


I've played a game as Jorvik so far. It was fun... save for the constant calls to war by Sweden and Denmark. At least until my first ruler died. All of the children died quite quickly, and my just-barely-underage son was murdered by his captains during a rebellion by the Dutch counties. Somehow then, numerous factions and plots fired. The more underage brother took over, and a huge independence league fired and ended almost immediately... it just took most of my wealth with it (I had about 700 left after hiring mercenaries to deal with the first rebel, but after that thing I had only 300), then another plot fired to make a half-brother the Petty King... and I just agreed, which knocked me down to 70 ducats. It also auto-fired my mercenaries, and I went from being able to raise 2k troops to only 400... and I still had 12 count vassals, with max feudal levies. I decided to just quit and try a different path.

I wish Norse characters had the option to invade duchies as well as counties and kingdoms... sometimes you just want the middle tier! (Like normandy!)

Raiding both East Francia and Lotharingia is great fun, especially when they're both at war with Italy!

Pssst!

Raid in the Mediterranean. There's a river that leads straight to the Black Sea. Rome is my preferred target, although I suppose it's somewhat gamey.

But gamey is fun!

I'm really quite enjoying the raiding mechanic though. Even if it's OP atm.

Since this is also a Paradox thread, what did you guys think of War of the Roses vs. Chivalry?

Ehh while i liked the idea of first Crusader Kings, this game is too complicated for me i am not really good at micromanagment, did Crusader Kings 2 made it any easier to micromanage and keep track of small but important things?

William Alatin III wrote:

Since this is also a Paradox thread, what did you guys think of War of the Roses vs. Chivalry?

I haven't played those unfortunately.

Rivatha Thunion wrote:

Ehh while i liked the idea of first Crusader Kings, this game is too complicated for me i am not really good at micromanagment, did Crusader Kings 2 made it any easier to micromanage and keep track of small but important things?

I actually thought as you did at first, but it's honestly not so bad if you play it enough. It's significantly less complicated than games like EU3 or Vicky2 in my opinion.

The only part that I still find too 'micromanagey' is also just an essential part of the game... marriages.

Fortunately they added betrothals that the AI doesn't seem to make use of. So you can arrange a marriage involving a child, and you'll be informed once they become an adult. It's still a good idea to keep track of things though, since that Emperor you arranged a marriage with is now a courtier and a prisoner after being overthrown. -.-

If anything, the game suffers from a lack of things to micromanage once you learn it.

Isabel Tenorio wrote:

If anything, the game suffers from a lack of things to micromanage once you learn it.

Definitely this.

Honestly, if they had a better tutorial, a lot of the initial learning curve would evaporate.

That's true of every Paradox game. The only one with a semi-decent tutorial is HoI 3... but that game is simply too large anyway. I understand it, but it's either incredibly boring (AI handles too much) or such an excess of micromanagement that it becomes work to play.

/doublepost!

I experienced a bug of epic awesomeness. I was preparing an invasion of the Kingdom of Africa, and had raised 10.5k troops... I was just about to hit the declare war button (A few weeks before the required date) when my ruler died. The invasion preparation was canceled, but all the troops and ships remained! I sent them raiding in the Mediterranean and finally turned it in with just about 1200 gold. I then prepared an invasion of Italy, and was able to invade with a total of 15k troops! I did lose all of them after the peace, however.

I just noticed that this game runs on the Klaus Witz engine, I should charge them for using my name or something!

So I just got to play some hours of the Old Gods and I like it very much. The first time I raided Rome and Venice and I was so nervous because I thought my 400 men would be killed but I just raided. The most awesome moment (so far!!!) was when I decided to raid the Byzantine Empire, I just jumped from province to province with my 600 men and just evaded their 12k army.

I imagined my men showing them finger everytime they passed them on their Longboats going to another province

Screenshots from my current game:

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On another note: Look at what happened to the Byzantine Empire.

That will suck when the Mongols come.

Nice one Alexander, how did it take you to come so far?

I just became ruler of Sweden for like 15 Years and wanted to make a name for myself so started a holy war on Finland. I don't know if this is a bug or something but the supply in these provinces is only enough for 1k of troops but the Garrison in these provinces are all 1.4k ... I loose 5k men just by standing there...it seems just not worth it

Doesn't seem like a bug to me, just worthless land.

As for how long, that was at about the 120-ish year mark.

Non-Pagans get a significant supply penalty when in Pagan lands, to simulate the guerilla warfare attacks. It's not a bug.

I culture switched to Polish for 10 minutes so that I could form the Wendish Empire.

Spoiler:

I'm still waiting for the AI to form one of the new empires.

Raiding the Byzantines (and the Muslims!) is by far the most profitable. It seems they can't raise troops in the province being raided, so just skipping around works very well with a small stack. I somewhat regret conquering Crete and Malta both as my Mediterranean bases, as with islands you can simply wait out the sieges and double your money. The Muslim half of Cyprus is another great spot to hit in my game... 80 gold on the first castle total, with very little protected by the castle. I clear 200 gold for taking every holding. It's about 2/3 the value of Rome (which I can't raid, because my Slow Uncle was given Italy via the Duchy of Genoa and decided to conquer Rome.) Apparently non-Christians can't usurp the Kingdom of Italy regardless of the lands held.

So it only took me ~47 years to go from the two county Petty Kingdom of Vestergautland to forming Sweden (914). And that was all because I took in 500 gold from a raid on Rome, which allowed me to double my forces through mercs to about 8,000 men and declare war on my neighbor who was at least twice as large county-wise. That mechanic is awesome. Lucky I did that too because my character died in the middle of the war which split off 3 counties thanks to gavelkind! I'm now playing as a 18 year old.

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I am busily bringing the glory of Iceland to the Christian heathens of the Mediterranean! Raiding really is overpowered, Iceland is now a technological and military powerhouse thanks to all the cash I've been able to pour into it, and I don't think a single ruler has died with less than 2,000 prestige, even when I was a single province count, from freaking Western Iceland!

Oh, and my first two rulers were also "the Great" for the same reason. Trying to break out and get some proper territory is proving to be interesting though. I've managed to unite the whole island under the glorious banner of House Adalhard, and I have some vassals in Norway but that's it.

As to geopolitical developments, Alfred the Great died before even becoming King, Jorvik took out the whole of England bar 2 Wessex provinces, then Scotland took out Jorvik. Scotland have also taken Ireland, meaning that the British isles are a Norse powerhouse at the moment. Rurik died early, and the Tengri took down Novgorod. Kiev still holds as a little Norse island in the Russian steppe. The Eastern Francia collapsed into a bunch of minor German states, and Lotharingia was the dominant power for a time, but recently split three ways into Lotharingia (The Low Countries), Burgundy and Italy.

Having started several games, and thanks to raiding on the fastest speed time has gone fairly fast, I've noticed some patterns. One of the continental powers almost always takes 1-2 of the others, but thanks to gavelkind they split again. Vikings are vastly overpowered at the start... but the Sons of Lodbrok are not of the same dynasty. After that starting generation, the rest are not allied. So for the first 20-40 years the Norse will win most wars, but afterwards its a more reasonable affair. Raiding stops being useful to the AI not long after 900. As a player I've been doing fine selecting my targets or hopping along in Byzantine territory as late as 950... but the AI stop being terribly affluent. Contrary to my original belief, the starting Rus (Rurikovich's dynasty) can raid by building shipyards... the starting counties just don't have sea access. A large lake is all.

The biggest issue is that around the time raiding stops being useful, the Frankish powers are able to implement primogeniture or elective monarchy. That tends to ruin the fun of the Norse. Steppe powers are actually much more powerful, at least. Raiding is less effective, but it directly adds prestige and gold. They can also declare seemingly unlimited invasions of kingdoms... and have light/archer cavalry as retinue. Needless to say, they are le awesome!

Ok, growing bored of this Iceland game. Now I've done my "test" game, I want to try something else. So, I now come to you guys for ideas. My plan is to do an entire history of a nation, from CK2 -> EU3 -> Viccy2. I think I've got all the expansions for each one now, so the possibilities are quite expansive.

The rules;
- CK2 has to be a Viking Count (I have to start really small, otherwise I could take over the entire world come EU3)
- Dynasty / Nation swapping is allowed, at any time.
- I will be using the Ruler Builder for the first guy - if you want to set parameters for this, or want me to try a particular type of character let me know!
- I'll try to keep you updated with maps and stuff, if you are interested in that.
- Tell me if the Aztec expansion should be on or not!

So stuff that I am after, is things like "start as a minor Norwegian Count, take over the Duchy of Holland and turn it into a Viking powerhouse. Come EU3, switch nation to XYZ depending on what happens...

Start as a minor Norwegian count. Raid extensively, and raid EVERYWHERE. Make it a challenge to try and raid every single coastal province you can. Your first target will be the holy site in Norway (if you didn't start there). After achieving inevitable Norwegian dominance, make the Kalmar union happen on time, and stay Norse all the way through to EU3.

Come EU3, work actively to split the union and switch either to Denmark or Norway, whoever has the most challenges (least land, least money, worst leader, etc.) Build it up, and eventually form the Denmark-Norway Union and if you can, stay Norse all the way through. Try to somehow colonize from Iceland, see if you can make it somehow to the new world. At the end of EU3, instead of being historical and dissolving the union, conquer all of Scandinavia. Chuckle at the feeble attempts to prevent the viking takeover.

In the start of Vicky II, Scandinavia (hopefully) will be the powerhouse in the north. Assert your dominance by conquering everything from France to Poland, including England, and laugh as the world tries to react to your muscular Scandinavia. Proceed to drink hard ale and grow a glorious beard as you end the Vicky II campaign as a proud viking who never gave up on conquest.

For character-wise, react to events how your character would. If you're playing a kind compassionate man, don't imprison or attack anyone (raiding doesn't count ). If you're playing a proud, wroth, viking berserker, you should never be at peace unless there are no more people you can war against.

Aztecs- if you want to or not.

The conversion to Vicky II will result in almost random distributions of power. The only way to get the game you've played is to mod each part yourself!

For the CK part, don't fabricate claims via your chancellor. Not that it's terribly necessary for Norse, but, all the same.

@ Varys, I've actually done that EU3 part before, I managed to be first to the New World via Iceland / Greenland, and took over the North-Eastern United States and Canada - I had to impose restrictions on myself to not conquer too much otherwise V2 would have been a drag (i've done it before where i've taken all of the New World with Holland).

@ Isabel - Actually the V2 conversion i've done have been pretty good. It tends to be the CK2 - EU3 that are messier, but I am hoping that it has been tweaked a fair amount since I did it last.

Challenge accepted on the Kalmar Union, though I'll give myself 2 years longer (union was actually from 1397, but EU3 starts in 1399 so it makes sense to keep going till then!). As a side mission, I am going to try to keep Russia Norse too. Should be amusing